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Albanians in Fort Dix

Patrick Poole, whose recent article on Islam in Albania generated a large volume of comments, has published another piece in the same online journal. This article, Kosova and Anti-Jihad Bigotry, looks at some of the responses to the arrest of a number of ethnic Albanians in the US on suspicion of planning attacks on the US military. There is also some comment from Poole on responses to this article on his blog.

Comments

Anonymous said…
this is what happens when you hang around with Turks, Lebanese, etc.

Albanians have to understand that we became independent from the Ottomans 100 years ago and now there is no reason or pressure to stay with them!

It is so sad. One of the worse moments of my life to see my name "Albanian" next to "Islamic" and next to "terrorists" in big campital letters on CNN and BBC, and all around the world. Such a shame. Now it will take us forever to erase the damage.
I can't explain how my family and all the Albanian community in Toronto feels.

They were from MAcedonia but since Albania per se has the official "Albania" name, the Albanian and the Kosovan goverments should have spoken to the public and apologized.

If they were citizens of Albania I would have their citizenships cancelled immediately. Too bad that the death penalty was abolished in the 90s! To me these people are murderers. What's even worse that they have crossed every notion of honor and respect that Albanians have.

After the incident with Mother Theresa's statue in SHkodra, and after this, i hope that other blind ALbanians wake up and take a look what is going on in the mosques. If we don't control what happens in our country then other people will control us.

Albanians in Macedonia are wrong because they identify with islam and not with being Albanian. What are we breeding among us?
nick said…
This is a disgrace. The albanian goverment in the Republic proper should have a reconciliation debate and gathering with opposition forces, writers, artists, VIP's, businessmen, important Albanians and other groups. Once and for all they have to decide the direction the country is headed. If they decide WEST then take the islamic look out of every albanian city. No other european country has mosques in the middle of the city. Get rid of the medresses. Those that can't live without studying islam can leave the country and if they decide to come back they should be closely monitored. Albania is a very small coutnry and it cannot afford even a small slip-up. We have so many image problems as it is! Once and for all they should come up with a BIG YES OR NO whether or not we are europeans or mohamedans. We cannot be both! If they say YES, then lets do away with all this nonesense NOW. If they say NO, and we need our dual identity as REXHEP (TRAP) QOSE put it, then thats fine as well. But this way we albanians that feel European know not to identify with that country once and for all and let it got to hell as so many other important men have over the centuries, from Kastriot's family after his death to Noli. They all tried but the Turks in Kastriots time and the Essad Pasha Toptanis and Zogists in Noli's time were all too powerful to fight.
Anonymous said…
Alwyn, you live in Albania. You see how reality is there. Nobody cares about Religion, most people are propably shocked to see something like this.
It's an outrageous but Isolated incident of 3 individuals who could never represent Albanians in any way, shape or form.
There's brainwashed idiots in every society. The fact that these people were married to arabs speaks for itself.
Linda said…
To the above person "The fact that these people were married to Arabs speaks for itself."

I don't understand what are you trying to infer by saying this? Are you saying that all Arabs are terrorists and have the same morale and ideology? Do you realize the meaning of what you just said? Don't make generalizations and stop stereotyping a whole nation only because of some sick and narrow-minded ignorant bigots.
It’s not different than saying that because of what happened in Fort Dix all Albanians are terrorists.
Anonymous said…
nick,
the biggest crime in Albania since communism has been the lack of registration of the population!

We don't even know how many Albanians are there let alone the religious direction.
Anonymous said…
nick,
"If they say NO, and we need our dual identity as REXHEP (TRAP) QOSE put it, then thats fine as well."
I totally agree with you, but go tell it to Kosovars who adore Qose
nick said…
Berisha has promised a population cencus for 2007 for both ethnicity and religious census. Given this government's record of keeping their promises it's hard to believe that it will happen anytime soon. However, it will be interesting to see what the religious affiliations in the republic are. The question should be posed as "Do you feel Muslim or Christion or atheist or whatever?" rather then "Are you such and such" since most people will say the religions of their forefathers which they dont identify with. The ethnic cencus will be a problem given that some will make use of it to declare that they are greeks or whatever so they can go to greece.


As for Qose, I was following the debates with him and Kadare and I think Kadare put him in his place, quite rightly so. AS a writer he is at a magnitude quite above Qose and he has always been the writer and person Qose never could be. People like Qose or Baleta in the republic have eaten a piece of cake somewhere and now just fly the flag of whoever gave them that piece of cake...Purely materialistic. Following an acient Albanian proverb: where the money lies there lies the sword. But this time we're talking about the survival of Albania, the upbringing of a new generation and direction of Albanians as a nation.
Anonymous said…
anon,
"Alwyn, you live in Albania. You see how reality is there. Nobody cares about Religion, most people are propably shocked to see something like this."

You are in denial and blind to say that no one cares about religion in Albania.
Months ago when the Turkish terrorist hijacked the plane full of Albanians, no one complained, he was called cool. Where have we come too. And the terrorist on interviews was saying that the Albanians were the only ones "kind" enough to take him in. Yeah right, he out our lives in danger and started the trend of association of "Albanian" with "Terrorist".
Islam is creeping up but people just don't like to admit it. Why? Because they know that they have a liking of Islam (Albanian men, especially the 20-30s generations), but they say it indireclty.
There has never been religious peace among ALbanians. In the past 50 years there was some calmness compared to before because Enver tried to abolish and water down Islam. But can you change 70% of the population(the 70:30 ratio is pre-communism)? No! What happened was that the smallest Christian group, the Catholics in the North were killed and persecuted all their life. Read “Rrno vetëm per me tregue”(Lie Only to Tell the Truth) by At Zef Pllumi. MEhmet Shehu after WWII tricked Kelmendi and we all know the episode when he put a cigar in a man's eye. I mean, in Kelmendi they just fought the Montenegrins, the Serbs etc and they were betrayed by some muslim of their own country.

During communism if you were Orthodox Christian and didn't marry a muslim you were outcast from society because you became "religious or bourgeois". I call it assimilation of the Christians. There was religious "tolerance" in Albania because the Christians are in minority and they are the tolerant ones. During communism muslim rituals became the supposed "secular" rituals. Tell me now how weddings are celebrated in Albania.
Could Christians marry in Churches? No, they had to follow the muslim or fake "secular" traditions. If an Orthodox married a muslim how was that celebrated? If the wife was christian, how does she have to behave in a muslim family. Albanians, you know it very well how!
I don't blame Enver. His father was an imam and for him to try to modernize was a courageous step, but he couldn't do much when every one is muslim.
Anonymous said…
nick,
"The question should be posed as "Do you feel Muslim or Christion or atheist or whatever?" rather then "Are you such and such" since most people will say the religions of their forefathers which they dont identify with. "

I was thinkign of the kind of question and you nailed it!
Anonymous said…
Nick,
I don't think that it will be a problem with Greeks at all.

I'm with Kadare as well, you cannot even compare him to Qose.
My grandpa was in the same highschool class with Kadare. That cohort was the one that kids from the Greek minority from Dropull had to go to highschool in Albanian in Gjirokastra. So, he lived in the Christian/Muslim environment.
nick said…
Yes, come to think of it, it shouldnt be a problem with the greeks, since most people that wanted to leave the country have already done so. The religious census should show about 30% of the population 'feeling' muslim including both SUnni and Bektashi, about 30-40% feeling Christian with a sharp rise in Protestant followers and the rest into other categories, like atheists, agnostics etc. These statistics should prevail. If they dont, that would men that the census is done wrong. This is for the fact that, the 35-40% Christians in Albania have mostly remained so. Some nominal Muslims have converted to protestants or Catholic and A sharp decline in Islam has occured especially in the Bektashi Community and the South in general. Hence, there are no more then 30% who would claim that they "feel" muslim. And even in these 30% very few actually practice it, but thats fine, if that's what they feel.

Albania has never been 70% Muslim. That number was wrong on so many leveles. Entire villages (mostly Christians) were not included in the sensus back then due to the remotness of their location, The Catholic numbers especially were downsized to 10%, when even today by most statistics it appears to be over 15%.
Anonymous said…
Guys, lets just be clear on a few things.

1) Albanians are in no way immune to the ready-made islamic identity. These morons were radicalized in the US.

2) The Albanians have 'brands': you have the nationalistic brand in Kosovo, the islamic one in FYROM, and the "i dont give a shit" brand in Albania.

however there is a real threat that Kosovo is now facing with regards to islamic puritanism and its deep pocketed supporters in Arabia.

For more information on the subject consult Isa Blumi's work. Just google his name
nick said…
"the 'i dont give a shit brand in albania'"????!!!!

I think you are mistaken about that. Have you had a look at some blogs or albanian forums. I think you will find that several albanians post very radical ideas there. Also, most sane people loose out to them in these writings just because they loose patience to deal with radicals that have no common sense. Even if they are a small minority of the population, by talking so much all the time, their voice will be the loudest and eventually it will be the only voice foreigners hear of from Albania. That's why the government needs to step in. This isnt about freedom of speech or religion or anything else. This is about protecting our European Albanian identity. Kosovo has its problems, thats granted, but their eye now is on independence and not on cultural identities. The republic should set an example for albanian inhabited lands by adopting a strong stand against islamics with arab money that stroll the streets of the country preaching non-european values. This must be done now before part of our unemployed and desperate youth succumbs to it.
Anonymous said…
Nick!

There's nothing to be done about it. They will succumb no matter what, for as long as there's no real Albanian rival to that ideology. The only rival I see is nationalism but like I says "the I dont give a shit" attitude will virtually ensure the other side wins.
nick said…
Anonymous said...

"There's nothing to be done about it. They will succumb no matter what, for as long as there's no real Albanian rival to that ideology. The only rival I see is nationalism but like I says "the I dont give a shit" attitude will virtually ensure the other side wins. "



Very Pesimistic of you. Are you having a downer of a day or something...lol. Anyways, hope everything turns out good in the end. Although all the signs are showing otherwise.
Anonymous said…
"That's why the government needs to step in. "

What government? The Sali BErisha obe who put us in the Islamic League? I think that we should withdraw immediately.
Anonymous said…
"
During communism if you were Orthodox Christian and didn't marry a muslim you were outcast from society because you became "religious or bourgeois". I call it assimilation of the Christians. There was religious "tolerance" in Albania because the Christians are in minority and they are the tolerant ones. During communism muslim rituals became the supposed "secular" rituals. Tell me now how weddings are celebrated in Albania.
Could Christians marry in Churches? No, they had to follow the muslim or fake "secular" traditions. If an Orthodox married a muslim how was that celebrated? If the wife was christian, how does she have to behave in a muslim family. Albanians, you know it very well how!
I don't blame Enver. His father was an imam and for him to try to modernize was a courageous step, but he couldn't do much when every one is muslim."

Wow, the level of ignorance surprises me. I like the quote could "Christian marry in Church? No, they had to follow muslim or fake secular ones."
Why, muslims could marry in mosques, or are does muslim equal secular?
And, also, our man in Tirana, I think you should make people aware of some rules about the blog. "but he couldn't do much if everyone is muslim." Note how bad it sounds when we stop calling muslims that: "for him to try to modernize was a courageous step but he couldn't do much if everyone is a Jewish" " for him to try to modernize was a courageous step but he couldn't do much if everyone is black".
And, before you speak of radical islam, watch how your radical your language has been.
Anonymous said…
"this is what happens when you hang around with Turks, Lebanese, etc"
My exact point, and first comment on the blog. If you are going to be sheep all of your life, then you should know that France and USA does not talk like that anymore. That's how Milosevic talks.
Anonymous said…
of course that's how we talk too, but not in front of France,USA, etc.

In the Albanian context,looking at our history and fresh experiences for us it is better to just stay away from their influences for at least another 100 years maybe.
WE need to do some catching up inside our society. They are just taking us steps back. Our interest comes first.
Bin Laden came to Albania in 97, when the country was in chaos. Fundamentalist want to create a mess in Kosovo and Macedonia so that they can do whatever they want, just like in Ottoman times. They are not our friends.
We have to withdraw from the Islamic League because we don't want Shariah laws. How can we join the EU if Islamic laws go against Eu's values?

Let's leave it to big dogs, Canada etc to deal "nicely" with Middle Easteners so they can feel better about themselves.


Call us sheep all you want, but in our country it is up to us to decide what to do, not you. Otherwise all trends show that we are going back to the Sultanate.

Milosevic and Serbs, your idols, can say what they want about ALbanians. If we cared what they said, Tirana would be Serb now. Whatever they say about us, know it that we think 100 times worse of them. We just don't act like they do.
The ones that hate us, i've always discovered that it is because of jealousy. It makes me happy. We happy little sheeps have something that you obviously don't!
Anonymous said…
Muslim Albanians taking over during communism.
They even shot this music video with a veiled woman in Apollonia!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5skV5TEy5qg&mode=related&search=

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